Big grind today after a few solid days this weekend. Gave everything back as usual. Lost 6 buyins over 4300 hands. My KK ran into AA 3 times tonight. I folded KK one other time tonight too on a 10 hi flop that I’m pretty sure was up against AA as well. Tell me what you think.
He calls my huge 4 bet and then shoves the rest of his stack. I wasn’t willing to lose 200 BBs since we were both deep. I suppose he could have had QQ or JJ but that would have been extremely unusual in that spot. My experience is that is AA 95% of the time. Basically God wanted me to run into AA with KK at least four times tonight IMO. What a monumental waste of my time.
15 Responses to “Blah blah blah and a Hand”
Leave a Reply
That’s a good fold. Huge huge overbet. That’s not AA ever. You’re basically hoping for a flip anyway. From my experience in this spot I see sets, straights, 2 pair at least that don’t know how to bet and are scared of the board texture and just push.
To me him calling my 4 bet and snap shoving the flop tells me he’s huge…and he doesn’t want any more cards to come and whore his overpair. It still screams AA. I don’t believe he plays a set that way. A check raise all in would make more sense to me with a set. I just don’t see him speculating and calling a huge 4 bet with 10-7 or 7-6 either.
Your 4 bet is entirely to large, I would make more like 2.5x which is like 6.75 or something. This will induce more preflop bluffs, also begging people to call to lightly, pre. Ntm, if an over card comes on the flop, we can still cbet for 1/2 pot if we choose to do and not feel committed. Your huge 4 bet preflop, makes this a really tough fold imo.
When he snap shoves overbets, this looks like Draws, and weaker hands that he couldn’t fold pre. Then he is like omg! I flopped the best flop ever. If you are worried about wether your fold was good or not (imo horrible). However if you want to just figure out the math. Estimate his range, for c/c a 4 bet which is pry a lot wider then AA. (your giving him credit to be a thinking player, by flatting AA, playing them tricky. Yet then overbet jams the flop by 2x, I dont see to many thinking players doing this… Fish imo rarely ever flat pre w/AA, they will do this more w/QQJJ,AQ etc.)
Then figure your out odds on the flop. I think you will find your fold was slightly – ev. You should only have to be good here like x % of the time. If just told you then that wouldn’t improve your game at all.
Figuring out your equity, in these spots will build confidence in your game, as well as your play.
Regardless, after running KK into AA, 3 times. Quit your damn session, I doubt you are playing your best by this point.
I’d be happy to help you with math, but I am sure you can handle it, when in doubt just google your question and some two plus two thread will pop up, with a simple well written explanation, on how to do the math, forever whatever problem your doing.
I totally agree that my 4 bet was too big but I just wanted to take it down particularly considering I was playing Rush tables hence no reads. However I will say that I think my fold was correct given my experience in the micros. Maybe in the higher stakes games the thinking is more exotic but in the micros hands are played very straightforward. He had his hand face up in my opinion. For 100 BBs I snap call even though I think I’m beat. Very hard to lay that down… But for 200 BBs I am convinced its a fold.
Stop playing full ring. 6-max is where its at.
Post that hand on 2-2 EB and see what the consensus is…
Since we have no reads on villian (Rush poker sucks becuz of this), you pretty much have to stack off here. Average reg fish treats JJ QQ and AA the exact same way (ZOMG i have an overpair…ARRRRR innnn). You beat 2 of those hands, and you lose to one of them…this is a call even being 200bb deep. What looks stronger…the way villian played it, or if he check raises your c bet and puts you all in?? Do you fold when he c/r you?? Regardless, i think it’s probably a bad fold….were u set mining KK here?? If a Q came on the flop, would you just fold and say “he must have QQ…i run so bad”?
Also, don’t play deep if you are going to muck KK vs rando villian the way he played this hand
I don’t believe average player today on FTP plays JJ and QQ the same way they do AA. I believe this is 100% incorrect.
If you believe this is 100% incorrect, i am 100% sure you will never beat any level above 50nl. You can’t just let yourself get run over. You can’t just put your money in the pot when you flop sets and/or have flushes and straights.
If you posted that hand on 2-2, u would get flamed for it. Yes, that is what they do on 2-2, but they also know what they’re talking about. I’m not saying you made a God awful fold by any stretch, but to say you are 100% sure this isn’t JJ or QQ or even A10 is just wrong, and that type of mentality will keep you a b/e or 50nl player all your life.
Ha! A10 is about as absurd a holding as I can imagine in this circumstance given a raise, reraise and re reraise. Maybe at my home game with my donk friends but not in a full ring game on FTP. Sorry pal.
Understand what I am saying:
I’m not saying I’m 100% sure I’m right with my fold. I’m 100% certain the average player does not play JJ and QQ the same way they do AA. I find average players play AA, KK and AK often times like the nuts. The average person on FTP is a TAG not a LAG. If they only had 20 BBs then sure they’ll play JJ the same way. But not 200 BB deep.
Now if we were using a HUD here and the guy is playing 40% of the hands or something absurd I snap call his shove. But readless I give the guy the benefit of the doubt since I find total spewtards to be the extreme exception these days. Most guys playing full ring today are nits.
This asshole in this hand may have had JJ or QQ. But it’s rare. More often than not flatting my huge 4 bet is indicitive of a huge hand. I don’t find players paying that much to speculate.
Finally, If you think I only get it in on flushes or straights you’re crazy. I never get flushes or straights.
Ok, you’re right
Nh, Wp, etc
If they have AA you just have to pay them off here – you cannot fold IMO – even if they have AA, you still have 2 outs. Coolers happen sometimes.
EB I was playing with you a couple of days ago and table fish was the 30 vpip player with a half stack. It’s quite unreal that the fish on nl50 is the one who is only slightly worse than the rest. I don’t think these guys understand how hard it is these days.
I like your show, but this is an absolutely horrible fold.
Your fold is awful. Why 4 bet KK pre-flop for value when you are going to fold when you have an overpair?